“I learned really quick what it means to hustle, what it means to work hard. If you want something, don’t take it for granted. Don’t expect it – Work for it!” -Kayla Bradham
[00:00:03] Kayla Bradham: I was the Green Bay Packers caterer, their bartender. I worked in the lunchroom. I worked in the dishwashing room, wherever they were. I was going to be sure to be there. And they really did have a great impact in my life. These are the years, we’re talking about the early mid-nineties. I went to college at St. Norbert from ‘91 – ‘94. Packers were doing great.
Those guys invested in me. They helped me believe in myself. They spoke life into me. They told me that I was a hard worker and they saw me.
These guys didn’t have to do that. There was nothing in their contract that said, be nice to the college kid. It’s that these guys were guys and they cared, and they had a spirit of humanity and that really should be the message for all of us right now to not get too high on your high horse that you’re always looking down, but instead pulling other people up with you.
[00:00:59] Tommy Thomas: Our guest today is Kayla Bradham. Kayla is the Executive Vice President of Sports Philanthropy Network. She wears a lot of hats. In addition to her day job with Sports Philanthropy Network, she serves on the boards of City on a Hill Tackle Hunger, the Souper Bowl of Caring, and we’re spelling that S O U P E R Bowl, and she’s going to give us a little bit more about that.
And then on the Michael Montgomery Foundation, the Heart of Michael. She’s a member of the NFL Alumni Association, and last but the most important thing, she’s a mother of eight children. She took her BA in Communications and Media and Theater from St. Norbert’s College. Kayla, welcome to NextGen Nonprofit Leadership.
[00:01:44] Kayla Bradham: Thank you so much. I’m happy to be here.
[00:01:45] Tommy Thomas: Before we jump into to your story, I want to know a little bit about your organization. Tell us about Sports Philanthropy Network.
[00:01:53] Kayla Bradham: About four and a half years ago, Tommy, my partner and I were trying to figure out how to use our collective experience, which is a lot of experience.
We’re both pretty old to find a way to create social impact through sports. We realized that there were so many people, athletes, business executives, nonprofits who wanted to create impact, but they really didn’t know each other or have a way to connect. So, we decided to start our own nonprofit sports philanthropy network to build stronger, healthier, and more inclusive communities through sports.
[00:02:30] Tommy Thomas: You’re four and a half years into this venture now.
Starting a nonprofit is just like starting a business. You invest everything into it. You work 15 hours a day. You put your legacy money into it.
[00:02:33] Kayla Bradham: Yes, sir. Booth’s rolling. So far so good? Starting a nonprofit is just like starting a business. You invest everything into it. You work 15 hours a day. You put your legacy money into it, your life savings into it. But I always say if it’s your vision, it’s your mission.
[00:02:55] Tommy Thomas: Those that listen to us pretty regularly will know that I always open my questions with a question about someone’s childhood and early life. And certainly, we’ll lead with that today. But I think for the people that are listening, it’ll be a little bit different response coming from you today.
One writer described Kayla’s life story as a testament to resilience, determination, and the profound belief in the transformative power of sports. Yeah, take us into your background.
[00:03:23] Kayla Bradham: First of all, thank you. And that’s a question that really is dear to my heart because it is my why. When I was a little girl my mom and I lived in extreme rural poverty.
And to give the listeners an idea of that, Tommy, some people will say, we’re so poor, we didn’t have a car and I’ll come back and I’ll say we were so poor my mom didn’t have a driver’s license. That means I paid somebody to drive me to college, right? When you’re that little kid, I don’t know, what is that second, third, fourth grade, and the teacher gives you the permission slip for band and sports, that’s a big moment because then you’re a big kid.
You can play sports and you can play band. I was so excited. I wanted to play the alto sax. I wanted to play baseball. And so, I raised my hand and told my teacher she gave me the wrong permission slip because I needed the baseball one, not the softball. And she said, Kayla, baseball is for boys.
Girls get softball. And already then, I was disappointed, but much more so when I went home excitedly and gave those permission slips to my mom. And she looked at me and she said, money doesn’t grow on trees. You’re not playing sports. You’re not going to be in the band. That stuff costs money and we don’t have it.
And that was the end of the conversation. I wasn’t going to play the alto saxophone. I wasn’t going to play softball, baseball. So, I went back to school the next day and I turned in those permission slips and my teacher said, Kayla, these aren’t signed, you got to get them signed. And I looked at my teacher, Tommy, and one tear started coming down my eye and I said, yeah, money doesn’t grow on trees.
And I don’t know who, but somebody paid my registration fees for softball, and I was a third base and left field for the Boston Red Sox that summer. And I remember standing out on third base one summer afternoon saying God, if you’re real, when I grow up, can you help me do this for other kids someday?
And that’s, to me the power of putting anything you want out into the universe with faith, trusting that someday it’ll come back to you and I’m 50 years old, and here I am.
[00:05:51] Tommy Thomas: The teacher that responded that day, you never got an inkling of who bought your registration?
[00:05:59] Kayla Bradham: You know what? I don’t want to, and I’ll tell you why. Because I was riding my bike to practice for the first day of practice, and I didn’t have a glove, right? We didn’t have money and on the way to practice I found a quarter on the sidewalk. So of course, I pick up that quarter and I keep on driving and then I go by a garage sale.
And at that garage sale, I find a old left handed leather Rawlings glove for a quarter. I went to my first practice with a baseball glove that I found the money for on the street. I don’t want to know who paid my registration fees because what I learned in that moment is don’t ask how or why, just believe that it’s meant to be.
[00:06:49] Tommy Thomas: Take us on into your high school days.
[00:06:52] Kayla Bradham: Still poor, right? That part doesn’t change. I started working full time when in the summer going into sixth grade. I used to ride my bike about, I don’t know, 8 to 11 miles each way, taking care of dogs and kids and cleaning and just making 20 a day.
I learned really quick what it means to hustle, what it means to work hard. If you want something, don’t take it for granted. Don’t expect it – work for it.
And back then in the late 80s, mid 80s, I guess, that was good money. So I learned real quick what it means to hustle, what it means to work hard. If you want something, don’t take it for granted. Don’t expect it – work for it. That carried me into high school. By the time I got into high school, I was lifting weights every day.
I was a football cheerleader, a basketball cheerleader. I was the president of Students Against Drunk Driving. President of Key Club. I was the Board of Education representative for students. I was on the Power of Positive Students Committee. I was doing whatever I could by the time I got to high school to get into college.
The thing that I knew was that I was going to be in no shame in this, right? But if I didn’t get out and get a college education, I was going to be living and working in that same small town of 8,000 people that I grew up in for the rest of my life. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But I knew that for me to get the network that I needed to make my dreams come true.
I needed to get to college. So, in high school everything I did was geared around how am I getting college scholarships to get into the best school that I can?
[00:08:31] Tommy Thomas: And you got into the school and it happened to be near Green Bay Packer organization. That’s where the Packers jumped into your life.
[00:08:39] Kayla Bradham: Yeah, so you know, you think, you talk about that. I was one of those pretty smart kids, right? So I had a perfect score in the ACT in science. I did really well on the ASVAB. And I got called into the guidance counselor’s office in 1990. I was a junior in high school. And I thought they were going to tell me, based on your testing scores, you should go into this or that.
I didn’t know if I wanted to be an engineer who designed bridges or go into sports media. And I was told that those were not good career choices for a girl and that I should be a teacher or a nurse.
I didn’t know if I wanted to be an engineer who designed bridges or go into sports media. And I was told that those were not good career choices for a girl and that I should be a teacher or a nurse. I declared my major at St. Norbert in Secondary Education, which I changed after one semester and went there for two reasons.
My grandparents were married at the church that was on campus. And the Green Bay Packers had summer training camp there back in those days. And I knew if I wanted to go into sports media, that’s how I was going to do it.
[00:09:39] Tommy Thomas: How did the Packers first enter your life?
[00:09:44] Kayla Bradham: They didn’t have much choice in entering my life because I chose to work every job that they were at.
So again, you’re talking about a kid who had to work. I worked four jobs all through college. I graduated in three and a half years. I’m really proud of that. That’s my message to all the young people out there. You can do whatever you want if you work hard for it. So I was the Green Bay Packers caterer, their bartender.
I worked in the lunchroom. I worked in the dishwashing room, wherever they were. I was going to be sure to be there. And they really did have a great impact in my life. These are the years now we’re talking about the early mid nineties. I went to college at St. Norbert from 91 to 94. Packers were doing great.
Those guys invested in me. They helped me believe in myself. They spoke life into me. They told me that I was a hard worker and they saw me and it helped me realize that athletes are people. We tend to make them idols. They’re just regular guys going to work, doing their job. They’re just like you and I, they put their socks on one foot at a time.
And when I learned that, I learned a lot about myself, that we’re all people, we’re all doing our best, none of us are perfect, we’re just all trying to get our break.
[00:11:10] Tommy Thomas: I know when we talked last week, you mentioned that a couple of them got in your face a little bit and maybe pushed you a little bit.
[00:11:18] Kayla Bradham: Yeah, and I’m so grateful that they did. I use these examples because these were the guys that just really spoke to my heart. And it was, the great pastor, Reggie White, asking me if I got up and I prayed that morning, telling me that if I kept my faith and I looked to God, that God would look back to me, always doing this, guys like Gilbert Brown, who, one night he took me out for a steak dinner and I’m just saying if you’re a college kid and you’re working three jobs and you don’t have money and somebody will do that for you it’s huge.
Reggie White kept asking me if I got up and I prayed that morning, telling me that if I kept my faith and I looked to God, that God would look back to me.
Santana Dotson, Leroy Butler, these guys just, you. Breathing life in it goes so far. And again, it just goes back to, the fame means nothing. These guys didn’t have to do that. There was nothing in their contract that said, be nice to the college kid. It’s that these guys were guys and they cared and they had a spirit of humanity and that really should be the message for all of us right now to get too high on your high horse that you’re always looking down, but instead pulling other people up with you.
[00:12:27] Tommy Thomas: So I mentioned the boards that you serve on, City on a Hill, the Souper Bowl of Caring, and Michael Montgomery Foundation. Tell us about those organizations, and I think they probably play into your overall life theme.
[00:12:41] Kayla Bradham: Yeah, they sure do. And you’ll see a weave here. So, City on a Hill. I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Milwaukee is America’s fifth poorest city. One of our zip codes, our central zip codes has the highest incarceration rate in the United States of black men in every state, Tommy, black men are incarcerated at least twice the rate of white men in that zip code that I’m speaking about in particular, that rate is 12 to one.
So I’m really proud to serve on the board of directors for City on a Hill. They have a generation building mission to improve the conditions of childhood poverty one family at a time. What they do is they break the cycle of generational poverty. They create awareness and resources to end poverty in all its forms for urban families in Milwaukee through faith-based initiatives.
[00:13:51] Tommy Thomas: The Souper Bowl of Caring. I know I’ve heard of that. And y’all seem to do pretty good raising pretty good money there. We’ll take us into that. How did it get started?
[00:14:01] Kayla Bradham: The Souper Bowl of Caring really under the umbrella of Tackle Hunger is an amazing organization, literally tackling hunger throughout the United States.
One of their big events is the Souper Bowl of Caring, where churches, schools, local groups, and individuals hold a Souper Bowl, a S O U P E R Bowl of Caring, or a food drive to support their local food charities. Again, Tom, when we talk about Milwaukee being the fifth poorest city in the United States, it’s important to talk about disease disparity.
Right now, Louisiana and Mississippi ranked number one and number two in the country for disease disparity. Wisconsin ranks number three. These issues aren’t just central to me. These issues are all throughout the country and the biggest ways that I can find to get involved and create an impact is to use my voice, my social media platform, my experience.
To speak out and say, where are we giving? How are we giving? Protein bars and cereal bars, super easy. Give, we go to the grocery store every week. I don’t know, in my family, I have eight kids. I go to the grocery store twice a week. Is it really too much to pick up an extra box of protein bars and hand some to a teacher, some to the homeless and some to the food pantry? I don’t think so.
I have eight kids. I go to the grocery store twice a week. Is it really too much to pick up an extra box of protein bars and hand some to a teacher, some to the homeless and some to the food pantry? I don’t think so.
[00:15:24] Tommy Thomas: And then the Michael Montgomery Foundation. I like that story because it has a contemporary ring to it.
[00:15:31] Kayla Bradham: Yes. Yes. Michael Montgomery. Based on the fact that it’s November in 2023, many of your listeners are going to remember that incident that happened last year with Damar Hamlin.
By the way, I’ll just put in a little caveat here to say that the NFL did an amazing job in the fact that he’s still living because those circumstances, the statistics are not good. So I have to give props to the NFL for that. But Michael Montgomery had a similar situation in high school. He was a basketball player at the time, by the way, his mom is the renowned Rosie Montgomery from the WNBA.
So for all my female sports fans right here. I’m talking about Rosie’s son, Michael. Michael had a DeMar Hamlin type of incident in high school. He was able to go on to play six years with the Green Bay Packers. He was aware at that point that he had this heart condition, just like DeMar Hamlin had. And when Michael was looking at which foundation to start for himself, many professional athletes decide that they want to start a foundation and give back.
Michael Montgomery decided to create the Heart of Michael Foundation to provide heart screenings for underserved youth. So I hope that your listeners are able to take all of these things and say, Kayla, an underserved girl growing up in rural poverty, used that experience to build a network with the Green Bay Packers, to work in a faith-based organization, to end generational poverty, erase racial residue, tackle hunger, and help underserved youth have the same opportunities that money and wealth take for granted. That’s how it ties together.
[00:17:21] Tommy Thomas: Aside from the Packers who poured into you early, have there been mentors in your life who have either pushed or pulled you along?
[00:17:29] Kayla Bradham: You know what? I’m so incredibly blessed. I feel like everywhere I go, people are mentoring me or teaching me lessons.
And the reason I say that is because not every experience that we have in life is good. I’ve had bad bosses. I’ve worked with gossipy women, backbiting women and men. The heart of man is desperately wicked. Who can know it? So you learn. And from every person that I worked with who was jealous or trying to use me for my network or whatever, you learn from that.
And then you learn from the people who lean in. And I guess what I learned is it’s better to have four quarters in your pocket than a hundred pennies. And that’s a message that my eight kids hear a lot. It’s a message that their friends hear a lot. And it’s a message that I use oftentimes when I’m speaking, keep your circle tight.
Stick with the people who are loyal, find the mentors who are loyal and be loyal. Always work for the people underneath you instead of the people that are over top of you.
[00:18:33] Tommy Thomas: What’s the best piece of advice a mentor has ever given you?
[00:18:39] Kayla Bradham: That’s a good question. I feel like I’ve gotten so many.
I think I’ll say this personally, and I’ll say this professionally, I think I’ve got to go if I’m going to be authentic, and I don’t mean to offend anybody, but if I’m going to be authentic, I need to stick with Reggie White. And when he’d say, if you keep your face turned towards God, God will keep his face turned towards you.
And if you choose to turn your face away from God, God will let you. And that really has stuck with me in the way that I do business, in the way that I handle relationships. I think what I learned from that is if you’re going to do business, it’s got to be a win for everybody involved. And I think I took that from Reggie, keeping your face toward the right people.
Personally, when I was in college doing this bartending stuff, I had the opportunity to bartend for George W. Bush at St. Norbert College. And when he asked me if I wanted his autograph, I actually said no, because people were just people, and I didn’t need somebody’s autograph. Like I was good at my job.
I was happy to lean in and be the best person for that job. And he said to me, I think that’s all right. I don’t hear that very often, but I think that’s all right. I think that was really good advice because we don’t need to kiss anybody’s butt in business. We need to be ourselves.
We need to be proud of who we are. I was very proud of the fact that I worked four jobs through school. I didn’t need his autograph. I was doing my job. And I think we should all take pride in the work we do no matter what level, what scale, right? I was a college student bartending. I wasn’t ashamed of that.
I knew that it was one of my other four jobs. So be proud of who you are. Yeah.
[00:20:28] Tommy Thomas: So what’s been the biggest challenge that you’ve faced as a leader?
[00:20:34] Kayla Bradham: That’s really easy for me. I know that one real quick. It just might not be a very popular answer, but it’s certainly being a woman. My partner is a Jewish man and oftentimes I’m assumed that I’m his secretary or that they need to speak with him.
Because he’s the decision maker. And I was just in a conversation actually a couple of hours ago around this very topic and that’s it’s 2023. And if people don’t know you, they will assume that the man is the boss, and the woman is the worker bee. And I am by no means what I consider myself a feminist.
But I would consider myself somebody who’s equal or interested and believes in equal opportunity and always hire the best person for a job. I would never want a job because I’m a woman. I would never also want to be treated less than because I’m a woman.
[00:21:30] Tommy Thomas: At what point in your career did you begin to feel comfortable as Kayla? Did you feel like you were in your leadership zone and that was good?
[00:21:40] Kayla Bradham: Yeah. So, Tommy, when this podcast gets recorded, I don’t know if it’ll be on video or not, but if it’s not, there’s the gray in my hair. Here’s my nails that aren’t done. I’m not wearing makeup. I’m a mom with eight kids.
And that’s my identity. I’m very comfortable being my authentic self. I don’t need to put on a show or an outward appearance. And I wish more people had this sense of self love. I’m 50 years old. I will not put on four inch heels, five, six inch heels. There’s a point where the confidence comes from knowing your worth, right?
And I know I’ve spent 30 years owning multiple businesses, working hard, hitting the corporate America glass ceiling. I know who I am. I’m proud of who I am. It’s not how I impress you with fancy nails and hair and makeup and fake eyelashes. It’s about my heart. And I hope that answers your question.
I hope it inspires everybody here to let your heart show, let your light show, let your personality show, and that’s what makes you beautiful.
[00:23:00] Tommy Thomas: I got a piece of advice from a guy when I was probably 21 or 22 years old and he was a Jewish fellow that I respected and I was talking to him one day and I don’t remember the issue we were discussing, but I remember his advice.
He says, Tommy, if you’re a three-ring circus, you be a great three ring circus, but if you’re only a one ring circus, you be the best one ring circus on the circuit. And I remember that counsel and I thought, I’m probably not a three-ring circus, but I can be a good one ring circus.
[00:23:33] Kayla Bradham: That’s right. Yeah. That’s right. What a great, powerful message. I love that. Thank you.
[00:23:39] Tommy Thomas: What’s the hardest decision you’ve ever had to make?
[00:23:43] Kayla Bradham: Okay. So I’m going to be really vulnerable on this. Okay. Because it’s not a story that I love to share, but I’m going to be honest with you. I was at a crux in my life as a single mom.
And again, eight children, right? That’s a heavy burden of responsibility and a fun fact. And I feel like I always have to say it, for anybody listening, all my kids have the same dad. So please don’t jump to conclusions about women who have, I have children and it really is none of your business and it doesn’t matter, but I’ll share it anyway.
Here I am now trying to figure out how am I going to feed these eight children? And I had just been offered a position of being a general manager at a Starbucks. Or I had been offered a job at a young fitness center company as a cleaner working part time. Now, I had owned a cleaning company business in the past.
I knew how to clean. One of those sounds way better than the other. When you’re talking about feeding kids, right? And that’s huh, take the Starbucks role. That’s good money, benefits, whatever. The difficult decision for me was if I took that GM role at Starbucks, I probably wasn’t going to go any higher.
It would be really hard in corporate America to do anything else. But if I banked on myself and knew how hard I worked. I knew I could be the best cleaner that company had ever seen and get promoted and who knows how many times promoted. Difficult decision.
I took the hard decision, started out as a cleaner, worked three other jobs at the point to keep things going as I got promoted. But I got promoted five or six times in those first three years with that company. To the point that I had a very generous six figure income doing something that I loved and that was creating hope and possibility and helping people be unstoppable in their fitness goals.
[00:25:45] Tommy Thomas: So I’m sure in that organization, as you rose, you managed or you led teams. What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned about team leadership?
[00:25:55] Kayla Bradham: Two things. One be a 360-degree leader. There’s a great book about that, but lead up, lead down, lead across. Every position has an opportunity to lead.
When I was a cleaner, it was hard to see myself as a leader. Because that’s really the lowest on the food chain, maybe except for kids club. I don’t know, but you can still lead. And so if I was going to be a cleaner, I was going to be the best cleaner that company ever saw. Just so happened one day I had a magic eraser, and I was cleaning the footboards at the front desk and the owner of the company who I didn’t know was the owner comes in and sweat clothes and says, what are you doing?
And I said there’s scuff marks here and they’re driving me crazy, but let me check you in. He said, I’m actually the owner of this company and we don’t have magic erasers. And I said, I brought it from home because the scuff marks were driving me crazy. Promotion, right? Be your best. So that would be one 360-degree leadership.
Number two: middle management is really hard, Tommy. You’re trying to get promoted. You want the people below you to love you. You want the people above you to love you. When you get put in between that rock and the hard place, remember who you work for. You don’t work for the people above you. You work for the teams you lead and when in doubt, do what’s right for the people below you and that will get you promoted time after time.
[00:27:26] Tommy Thomas: Have you had a ‘I wish I had started this earlier in my life’ moment?
[00:27:34] Kayla Bradham: Yeah, tons of them. I wish I would have started investing in my 401k earlier. I wish that I would have gone to therapy earlier. Life is hard for everybody.
I’ve never met anybody who doesn’t have trauma in their life. And I think we spend so much time trying to get our heart and our mind to sync up. And there’s this always this battle of, I’m thinking this, but there’s no way that’s right. But in my heart, I feel this.
And I feel like if we maybe all just took time to build that really tight network, that inner circle, get a mentor, go to therapy, unravel some of those traumas. I heard it described really well. And it was like, if our life is like a big plate of spaghetti, pulling out those noodles one at a time to get to the meatballs.
Like just pull out that tangled mess of noodles, get to the meatballs. And I wish I would have done that sooner. I think I would have been a better mom when my kids were younger. I think I would have been a better wife. I think I would have been a better daughter. I think I would have been a better friend.
We get caught up in ourselves and our own trauma that we forget that it’s possible to unravel it.
[00:29:02] Tommy Thomas: What’s the greatest lesson you’ve learned from your children?
[00:29:06] Kayla Bradham: My children teach me so many things, Tommy. What I see in this generation is that children really are the hope of a future. My children are slow to judge, and I see this with their friends too, right?
I’m a Gen Xer. I remember when I was in high school, and I’m just gonna be really blunt, I hope I don’t offend anybody, it’s not my goal, but when I was in high school, everything was gay. Broccoli was gay, homework was gay, gay was on every TV show, whatever, and it was never used good. My children aren’t like that.
They don’t use words that would hurt people for things that don’t matter. They’re kind. This is again, not just my kids, it’s the whole generation. Very understanding and I don’t mean apathetic by any means. They are opinionated, but they’re not jerks. And I feel like that’s something that us Gen Xers, we missed when we were their age.
We were cool when we put other people down, we were king of the mountain beating our chest at the expense of the nerds. And I have air quotes for anybody who’s not seeing this, the nerds, the geeks, the not cool people, we were banging our chest being better. My kids are not doing that, neither are their friends.
[00:30:33] Tommy Thomas: If you could go back in time and tell a younger version of yourself something, what would it be?
I would tell a younger version of myself – You are going to be OK. Hard work pays off.
[00:30:40] Kayla Bradham: You’re going to be okay. I would tell myself the hard work pays off and I would say this to anybody. If you’re listening to this and you see my social media accounts or you see what I do people tend to jump to the she’s entitled or I don’t know how she knows all these athletes or how she has all these connections, but you know what?
I’m a little kid who grew up in a town with 8,000 people in poverty. I grew up in a home where we didn’t have a car. I grew up in a home without a dad. I grew up severely, physically, sexually, and emotionally abused. At some point, we need to just decide for ourselves if we’re going to be victims or if we’re going to be victorious over our trauma.
At some point, we need to just decide for ourselves if we’re going to be victims or if we’re going to be victorious over our trauma. I chose to be victorious.
I chose to be victorious, and I tell myself that was the right decision. Just go out and forge your own path. Be the person you were created to be. Stand in your own shoes and have the faith that if you work hard enough and you’re trying to do what’s right
[00:31:45] Tommy Thomas: What do you understand about your life today that you didn’t understand a year ago?
[00:31:52] Kayla Bradham: Really great question. I think what I understand about life today is that if you dig in your heels stubbornly, it’s really hard to climb up the mountain. A year ago and again, having a nonprofit 15-hour days, your life savings, whatever, you can work so hard and feel stuck. But what I learned is when you keep working those 15-hour days and you keep reading books and you keep building your network and you keep trying to do the right thing and you keep moving your boots up the mountain.
Eventually, you hit the top of the hill, and it’s a lot easier to just hop in a sled and slide on down. After four and a half years with the nonprofit, we finally hit the top of the mountain. We finally had the support coming in. We finally are starting to see the fruits of all of that labor, so don’t give up.
You get to a point when you’re climbing up a mountain that if you jump off, you’re gonna die. Keep climbing, don’t die. That’s what I learned this year.
[00:33:07] Tommy Thomas: Thank you for joining us today. If you are a first-time listener, I hope you will subscribe and become a regular. You can find links to all the episodes at our website www.JobfitMatters.com/podcast.
If there are topics that you’d like for me to explore my email address is [email protected].
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“At some point, we need to just decide for ourselves if we’re going to be victims or if we’re going to be victorious over our trauma. I chose to be victorious.” -Kayla Bradham
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